📜 Developer Diary #10 - Interview with Destroyah22 📜

Ladies, gentlemen, phoenixes that live atop the peak of Adegoke, welcome!

Tonight we have prepared something a little different for Developer Diary #10. For those that missed it, about a month ago we had an interview on Twitch with Destroyah22 where we discussed all sorts of things about Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death, about who we are as developers and gamers ourselves, and about our future plans for the studio.

You can find the entire interview, uncut and unedited by us (complete with many "ums", "uhs", and the occasional awkward silence) on YouTube right here:

However, for those interested, we've prepared a transcript with our favorite Q&A that we've edited for Steam below. We hope it will help shed some light on our motivations and goals for Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death, get you excited about what's to come in the full release, and also help everyone to get to know the two of us at The Incandescent Bard :).

Note: You can find Destroyah22's Twitch right here: https://www.twitch.tv/destroyah22

Check her out and support an up-and-coming streamer and fellow gamer! :)

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Destroyah22: Welcome guys! Hi Chris, hi Paige. I don't have a huge, huge audience but I'm glad I could platform you guys and your game. I think your game is absolutely adorable.

Chris: I'm really happy to be here.

Paige: Mmhmm, thank you very much.

Destroyah22: What inspired you to take the leap from gamer to developer?

Chris: For me, creating a game, creating a world, and telling stories is something that I've always loved and always wanted to do. I've messed around with other game engines in the past during college and things like that. But, it basically boiled down to, I had a good amount of money in savings, and I wasn't getting any younger so I felt like now is the best time to try to chase that dream and create a game worth playing. A story worth telling.

Destroyah22: Yep that sounds perfect. What time is better than now to take the leap? I definitely understand that.

Destroyah22: Were things like Dungeons & Dragons an inspiration for some of the monsters and the characters in this world?

Chris: Yeah. We are both huge fans of retro RPGs. My personal favorite, and one of the biggest inspirations for SGoD is Golden Sun and that series.

Destroyah22: Mmhmm.

Chris: I've played those games, probably, a half dozen times over the years. And it's always just a super fun experience. So games like that, Chrono Trigger, the original Final Fantasy 7, are all big inspirations in a genre that we both love and play a lot of. Also, I'd say the second biggest inspiration is actually classical period history.

Destroyah22: Mmm.

Chris: In the demo, the area you're in, in Amuniai and the temple area in the Verdant Temple, that's all based on Celtic mythology. The sylphs, the myconids. You'll face other creatures like mandragoras and we saw the branos when I was watching your stream, the evasive crow mobs. They’re all based on mythical creatures from celtic mythology, and a lot of the sort of style of the world is based on classical period motifs.

In the wider game, for example, we have areas based on Greek and Carthaginian history, or mythology is the better word. We have stuff based on Germanic and African and Norse, and just trying to take sort of ancient mythology from the classical period and sort of bring that and create a world, drawing from those themes. I think it's a time period that isn't really represented well in RPGs. Most RPGs and fantasy games and stories in general, sort of draw from medieval cultures and things...

Destroyah22: Mmhmm.

Chris: But I've always been a big fan of classical period history so it's one of the big inspirations for the game world and the story. And I think once the full game is released and you're playing through it, you'll see a lot of that inspiration shine through.

Destroyah22: So, what was it like approaching developing this game from scratch? I know that you went through the timeline of "might as well do it now" but I'm sure you had your ups and downs. Looking back on it, what are some things you wish you'd have known? What are some things that most people would never think of when you're trying to develop a game like this?

Chris: Yeah, #1 most important lesson: wait until the end to do tutorials, or else you're gonna have to do them over and over again. (laughs)

Destroyah22: (laughs) Okay.

Chris: The tutorials that pop up in the demo we've probably recreated them, I don't know, fifteen times by now.

Destroyah22: Oh wow.

Chris: The art in the first area has been updated over time from where it was back in the original alpha when we first were sharing the game around - and it's much more improved - but, every time we improve it we have to go retake all the pictures for the tutorials.

Destroyah22: Mmm.

Chris: Which is a bit time consuming and tedious but, on a more serious note, although that's all 100% true, I think that probably, having a foundation in all the different disciplines required to make a game, is a much bigger task than I originally thought.

Because when you're an indie developer and just a small team, it's just the two of us, we have to be writers, we have to be artists, we have to be coders, we have to be social media and marketing gurus, we have to manage the finances, like our own personal finances and the studio's finances, and it is a lot.

Destroyah22: Mmhmm.

Chris: It's absolutely worth it. I love game development. I love telling stories. And it's just been a really rewarding and fulfilling experience. But it's a lot more work than I first expected when I was first dabbling in things like Unity and RPG Maker and stuff like that, figuring out what engine we wanted to use. I didn't expect how difficult it would be.

Destroyah22: So, you mentioned that you had an alpha and I did see that you had folks in there who were testing. How did your testing work? You had a couple people listed in the credits as testers, did you drive them insane (laughs) or did they have to write you long articles or long essays about how they tried to break the game and that they were able to click through this wall or that wall, etc.?

Chris: So with our alpha we just shared it around through some friends and family and got them to playtest and to look for bugs and stuff like that. One of the most interesting and notorious bugs I think they found was if you remember Songflower, the little cat in the village,

Destroyah22: Yes!

Chris: There's a certain place you could stand in the village that would bug out the cat so it would start moonwalking, and it would just move back and forth moonwalking. It was really weird, I have no idea how that happened.

Destroyah22: (laughs) That's hilarious, and I'm kind of sad, that I couldn't make that happen! But-

Chris: (laughs)

Destroyah22: But I'm glad you guys were able to catch that. Ah! I wish I could have seen it.

Chris: When the tester showed it to us I was just like "How? How on earth did you make that happen?" And eventually we were able to figure it out and get that bug fixed. Besides that, our publisher also has their own QA department, and they also contract with third party professional testers that they've sent the game out to and they've done their own internal QA testing.

Destroyah22: That's pretty awesome. So, everybody knows horror stories of publishers. How were you able to find your publisher?

Chris: Paige you wanna- you take this one and maybe I can chime in.

Paige: Sure, so actually, our current publisher was not the first one we've reached out to. It's kind of a similar process if you're writing a novel for the first time or have some sort of idea and are trying to pitch it to others. It tends to take quite a while before finally someone sees the shine in it. I don't even remember how many we submitted to, probably at least 50? And, we heard some "no's" back from a chunk, and another handful we just heard no responses from, and we were starting to look into "do we actually need a publisher? what do we do?".

And one day actually, Chris, like on a whim almost, stumbled upon our current publisher, and was like "You know, sure let's throw a dart. We've applied to this many already, let's give them a shot", and they actually expressed interest in our game and we were shocked and oh so grateful and the rest is history from there.

Destroyah22: Nice. And we have a question in chat, who is your publisher? Since they seemed kind of awesome.

Paige: So they are indie.io.

Chris: They're a really cool publisher. They've been really helpful at sort of amping up our marketing presence, getting the game into QA...some of the features that are in the demo and main game they really pushed us to include.

We originally had a much more simplified control scheme, but having hotkeys to open up specific parts of the menu like the inventory, having a WADS preset that's easy to access, and things like that are things that they pushed us towards and I think it's really helped to make the game more accessible, and that's a really great thing.

Destroyah22: Alright, back to the fun parts. I, really appreciate, that you guys have a female main character. Without having it be some kind of outside influence. So what made you choose a female main character? Like a priestess story.

Chris: Wedelia was just the natural main character of the story. When I was just coming up with the story and putting things together, she was the central focus.

I also thought it would be really cool because I think that female protagonists in RPGs, even today, are pretty rare. They especially were for retro games back in the day. I mean, you look back at like Chrono Trigger and stuff. Amazing games, wonderful. But not many had female protagonists.

So not only was she the natural character to lead this story, but I wanted to have a female protagonist in the story that was not just replacing a male protagonist. This was a story that-

Destroyah22: Belongs to her.

Chris: Exactly! Yeah, exactly.

Destroyah22: Sorry to put words in your mouth (laughs)

Chris: No, no, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

Destroyah22: I've got a question in chat. Did Paige ever chime in during the writing process to say "a woman wouldn't do that?"

Paige: Well, actually, yes. For the most part, being female myself, I think that the writing's great, and the characters feel how they're supposed to feel, and the emotional beats in the stories feel on point. But there's actually a few points in a later Act that I thought some of her responses just didn't make sense or were from more of a mindset of someone who hasn't experienced what females experience in certain situations.

I've spoken up about those though, and they've been tweaked so now they feel a bit more natural and a bit more friendly to players of both genders, and don't ostracize anybody. Nothing bad, and it's rare though.

Destroyah22: Oh well that's hilarious. Cool. And no offense to Chris, but I'm not terribly surprised. (laughs)

Chris: That's totally fair.

Destroyah22: (laughs) What do you think is the most important ingredient in making this game? What was the most important thing?

Chris: The most important ingredient...that's a good question.

Paige: For me at least, well probably for both of us in part, I'd say definitely not giving up (laughs).

It's kind of silly to say but, in any task of creating something, there's going to be a lot of times of joy and a lot of times of frustration. And it’s important to take breaks for sure, and come back to it later. And sometimes you have an epiphany or see a different route that [you] can take.

Destroyah22: Is there anything else, specifically that you wanna share with your audience and for potential future customers who are very interested in games of this type, and your game specifically?

Chris: If you haven't tried Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death yet, if you like old-school RPGs, give our game a try. Give our world a try, and I think you'll like it. I know you'll like it. We put our heart and soul into it, and we love what we do. We're gamers ourselves. We know what, or at least we think we know what, makes a great RPG, and we're doing our best to bring that forward, as well as to have a story that ties all the gameplay together that is as impactful as the ones back in the day that, for me, shaped me into becoming who I am today.

Those really epic stories that stuck with you, is something that I am doing my absolute best to bring forward into Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death, and hopefully, future games as well.

Destroyah22: Awesome. Well we have one last question in the chat. Or is that two questions? So, first question, hidden gems in the demo?

Chris: If you go into Niamh & Kazin's house, on the 2nd floor you'll find a chest. And depending on whether or not you loot that chest, there's just a very slight change in the story if you come back there later.

Destroyah22: (gasps)

Chris: Nothing big or impactful, but if you speak to Kazin upstairs he'll have a different response depending on whether or not you stole his money.

Destroyah22: Oh #$%^ (laughs)

Chris: We love including small little things like that throughout the game. I think one thing that some games suffer too much from is NPC bloat.

Destroyah22: Mmm.

Chris: And that's something we really try to avoid, and to make our characters everywhere throughout the game feel like they belong, and feel like they react to what's going on in the story. So even NPCs that may not seem so important now, may be involved in quests later, or may show up to be a more important player in the story than you would think. So don't count out any characters you meet along the way in Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death, they could be important later.

Destroyah22: Next time I play this guys, when the game comes out, remind me not to loot that chest.

Chris: (laughs)

(Editor's note: This is where Destroyah22 ran out of questions but chat just kept asking, so we kept answering!)

Destroyah22: Alright, this is a two part question - well, I need an answer from both of you, I mean. Which character is your favorite character in the game this far? Who is your baby?

Paige: Well, mine is definitely Einno. Well, I pronounce it A-no, I think Chris pronounces it I-no.

She's just a bundle of joy.

(Editor's note: I, in fact, do not! 'Tis E-no.)

Destroyah22: I absolutely said her name wrong. I know who you're talking about.

Paige: Oh no, you're fine. It's hard too. It's like you're reading a book, but you haven't stumbled upon these names before, how would you know just off the bat, "this is what their name is."

Destroyah22: (laughs)

Paige: But she's great, she's fun, she's different, unique, she's her own person. I hope you all, if you don't like her already, will truly come to love her more as the story progresses, because she's just awesome.

Chris: For me, I would say that - I'm going to sort of divide it between two characters - primarily Wedelia is my favorite character. She is someone who takes her responsibilities very serious, and she's not afraid to...she will do whatever it takes to protect those she cares about, and I find her to be a very inspiring character.

I think that her development over the story - I don't want to spoil anything - but she goes through alot over the course of the game, yet despite everything she goes through, she pushes forward to protect those she cares about and those she loves. I just think she's an awesome character and I'm really happy with how she develops over the course of the story.

So that is my primary favorite character, but there is another character you will meet named Cassius. He is sort of one of the main antagonists, and I think people will like this character. He's kind of a bad#$%, to be honest. He is very sincere, duteous, and he does what needs to be done. I just think he's a great antagonist who isn't just - what I don't like in stories are cliche villains where it doesn't make sense what they're doing. They're just being villainous for the sake of being villainous. So I try my hardest when I'm writing antagonists that every character in the story has a reason for doing what they're doing, and they're not just a cliche villain. I like all of the villains in our game, they're really cool.

Destroyah22: What are your top 5 RPGs? This is another 5 from each of you question.

Chris: For me, it's going to be Golden Sun, Final Fantasy 7 the original, what else...Phantasy Star IV...after that it gets a little tough. I would put Chrono Cross on that list. Chrono Trigger is amazing too, but I'm more on the Chrono Cross side of things. The Shining Force games, I really love those. I'm also a big fan of tactical RPGs, games like that, Triangle Strategy is a recent game that's really good, if you've never played that. It's a recent game for the Switch that's got a really great story. Very Shakespearean, and I enjoyed it alot because of that.

Destroyah22: Shakespearean tragedy or comedy?

Chris: Tragedy. 100%. It is a very tragic - Triangle Strategy is one of those games where you think, "it can't get any worse", and then it does. Every step of the way. And I loved it.

Destroyah22: Angst. Angst RPG fans. Got it.

Chris: (laughs)

Destroyah22: What about you Paige?

Paige: So picking favorites is not my strong suit. It's tough. I've definitely been impacted alot by Undertale. I haven't played much of Deltarune yet, but Undertale is definitely up there for me. Twilight Princess, Legend of Zelda, enjoyed that one immensely, the slightly darker take on Zelda. Definitely Chrono Cross. I like to compare that to Sunflowers a little bit, because it takes more of a chill vibe to the game, it's just relaxing, the music, the scenery - so we've tried to make Sunflowers more of a chill game to play after a long day of work.

What else...Final Fantasy 6 and 7 I've enjoyed quite a bit. I'm blanking right now - oh, I also loved Pokemon XD. I thought it was really cool that you could steal other people's Pokemon, for justice, in a way?

Destroyah22: (laughs)

Paige: And cleanse their hearts from darkness into light. Games with a darker kind of spin, but nothing too dark, I've enjoyed the most.

Destroyah22: I will take your Pokemon and do whats best for the Pokemon.

Paige: Exactly.

Destroyah22: Alright chat, you guys have got the good questions. I feel like I was bad at this. Come on chat, lets go! (pauses) Any future games planned?

Chris: Yeah, actually, Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death is just the first half of a duology we have planned. We're already writing out the story for the sequel. We're not working on the sequel, but as we flesh out the story in the first game, we are keeping in mind how that's going to link in with the major story beats of the sequel.

Of course, that just depends on how successful this first game will be, so that we can make the sequel and push forward with that. So we definitely have that planned.

Destroyah22: Nice.

Chris: Just to be clear, Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death is a fully contained story. It's not going to just end halfway, or something like that.

Destroyah22: No sequel bait. But there will be a sequel.

Chris: There's nothing like that. But there is a sequel planned. Stuff that's happening in the story, in the game world, is going to tie directly into that.

Destroyah22: Will you be - beyond that, I know you're saying that the first game is going to be a complete game, there's going to be a beginning, middle, and end, but stuff that happens in the first game is going to carry over to the second. Will that extend to save files? I know some games used to, in the late 90s, would say "I see you played the first one", and they'll take that save file. Or will there be a canon, "this is where we're picking up from the first game". Or is that something you guys haven't planned out yet?

Chris: I will just say I would very much like it to be that - your save file - you can take forward into the next game.

If you've played the Golden Sun games, how they work, is that you play through the first game, and then in the second game, your perspective switches to a different party. You play as them for awhile, and you meet up with the first party, and you finish the game with the combined big party of both games.

Destroyah22: Combined might.

Chris: Yeah, and that's how we have Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death and its sequel planned out. In the second game, you're going to start off with a new group, and you're going to follow their perspective for awhile, and eventually you're going to meet up with Wedelia's group, and...what happens from there you'll have to find out.

The idea there is that it would work like the Golden Sun games, where you have a combined group and your progress will carry over. So when you get Wedelia and company in your party, they will be exactly how you left them. We think that would be really, really cool and it's something we hope to do.

Destroyah22: Nice. Okay, chat is popping off. What is your most played game when you were younger, as a child? My favorite game of all time as a child was FF7, but in reality I was mostly playing Mario Kart the whole time. What was your most played game as a child?

Chris: Mario Kart 64 was amazing. But my most played game - probably Baldur's Gate II. I totally forgot to mention this in my favorite games list. Not the PlayStation action RPG one, but the CRPG Baldur's Gate II. I played the crap out of that game. I'm a huge fan of the Baldur's Gate series, and that style of CRPG in general. I've played Baldur's Gate III, the Owlcat Pathfinder series, games like that. Between Baldur's Gate II, Phantasy Star IV...Shining Force 2 I played a ton but I didn't actually own it. I had to talk my parents into renting it for me over and over again so that I could keep playing it.

Destroyah22: Ol' Blockbuster Video.

Chris: Exactly. I think most of my gaming time as a kid was spent replaying those three games, along with Final Fantasy 7, 8 and 9. When 10 came out on PlayStation 2, it totally blew me away. The graphics were just incredible. Loved that game, played it a ton. I played alot of different games. I also played games in different genres besides RPGs. Spent a ton of time in James Bond Goldeneye for N64.

Destroyah22: A true classic.

Paige: Well, phew. This kind of goes back to the favorites again that I always struggle with. But what came to mind while Chris was speaking was The Legend of Dragoon. I forgot entirely about that game for the previous question. That was - the oldest game system that I owned was a PlayStation 1. And that was one of the games that I got. And I just thought the art style was so unique. Sort of - kind of like the original Final Fantasy 7 - That kind of blocky, pixely [style]. I loved the fight style with timing the button presses, and trying to get Lavtiz's - one of his spear attacks with an 8 button press combo was the hardest thing for me as a kid.

I played through it a few years ago and did considerably better with the knowledge I now have. And I actually learned that the female in that game, that's with you for quite awhile, she's an archer. Well apparently she can even use your magical items and deal alot more damage than I knew. As a kid I would just spam shoot (laughs). So I've grown alot, but I just didn't know at the time. I enjoyed that game immensely. The plot is incredible, the story is great, it's just so, so fun. And seeing all these monsters and everything come to life through the art style is a quite unique and memorable experience.

Destroyah22: Awesome. Great picks. Alright, another question from the chatters - what is your fastest turnoff in modern games?

Chris: For me it's a bad story. If I'm not engaged with the story - I like to give things a chance. Whether it's a game, or whether it's a new anime, or a new show on HBO - I'll usually give it a couple hours, or for a show a few episodes. But if I'm not hooked with the story, I'm going to drop it. I would say that, with games, there's sort of pillars that make a great game - the gameplay, the art, and the story - and all three of these are equally important. But for me, even if the gameplay and the art are really good, if the story doesn't hook me in the first few hours of the game, I'm going to drop it.

Destroyah22: I can see that. I agree.

Paige: For me, the biggest turnoff - I agree with Chris that story is one of the biggest factors, in addition to the other pillars. At least, this game that I had tried, sometime last year I believe it was. It looked beautiful. It had this comic book panel art - I thought that was clever. It reminded me of Phantasy Star IV some. I got [this game], but it ended up being after maybe an hour of playing through the game, I stopped playing.

Not because of difficulty or anything. But it really bothered me - the representation of the main character in the game. They were female. It just felt - talking with some of the male NPCs in the game just made me uncomfortable and reminded me of some real world experiences I've had, and in movies, and on TV, that just made me think "this doesn't feel like someone who understands women wrote this" - and I just had a bad taste in my mouth. So I just stopped playing.

Destroyah22: Oh wow. Thank you for that insight. I actually - I do get it. I tend to avoid games that make you feel - that kinda just spook you out. Another question we got from the chat is "most unexpected thing that happened since you started making the game?"

Chris: We already told [you about] the moonwalking cat bug, so let me - give me a second to come up with something better.

Destroyah22: (laughs)

Paige: Oh I had - one of the days, maybe not the most unexpected, but quite a humorous one at the time. I was playtesting through one of our Acts, and I'm inspecting everything from all these different angles, and redoing conversations, and at one point I'm chatting with an NPC. When the chat finishes, the party is supposed to regroup into Wedelia's walking sprite...well they didn't do that.

Instead, Einno just starts running around the side of the screen, down into an invisible hallway and I'm like "Okay, that's that, that's a bug". Little things like that are just such a delight when they happen.

Destroyah22: Another question about the game, what - so we were talking about the composition of the music for the game. What is your favorite musical piece for the game? Is the music separated into areas, or is there a theme song for certain characters? What's your favorite piece?

Paige: So one of my favorite pieces is actually from a place that is outside of the demo. In Act II you can visit a place called Gimyne. It's such a chill beach town. As a player, the moment you enter Gimyne I am just so soothed, and relaxed, and want to just stay there for half an hour, and it's not even a big town. The music, the ambience, I'm just so - it's bliss.

Destroyah22: That's pretty cool. It's funny, because when I was playing the game I was sitting there and I was like I know there's lots of quote/unquote "cozy games" but this is my version of a cozy game - and then I immediately turned around and started cussing out the thing I was fighting. (laughs) But it is very cozy. Time flew while I was playing.

Paige: Awesome. We're glad to hear it. That's one of our main goals of the game. The fact that it's spread to not just us, but to others as well, that feels great.

Destroyah22: Also, I'm always happy to pet the cat. Pooky just asked if you can pet the cat, and you CAN pet the cat. I pet the cat for like 5 minutes yesterday.

Paige: (laughs) There's even a few other animals, later in the game, not too many now, but there's this pig that appears later named Lady Haughtysnort. And I love the interactions with Lady Haughtysnort. She's a regal pig. I love the amount of time and effort we've put into - just this pig on the side of a map that someone could easily not even bother with, but if you take the time you could spend a good 5 to 10 minutes just having a blast with this pig.

Destroyah22: Oh man, that sounds awesome. I'm excited. I love petting the animals. Listen, if you tell me I can pet the cats, pet the dogs, and now there's even a pig interaction? Sold. Love it. Do you think you'll be releasing the soundtrack?

Chris: We will not be releasing the soundtrack because for several of our composers, we have a license to use it in the game, but cannot release it separately. So we won't be doing that. We are very - with the composers we've licensed music from, and the artists - because some of our artwork we also license work from other indie artists, and we'll make the modifications we need to bring it into the game.

Intellectual property is really important to us, and that's one of the reasons we went with our publisher, actually, is that we still have full control over the intellectual property of the game. It's really important to us that we respect the other incredible indie artists and composers out there and their wishes with their work. The soundtrack for the game is amazing, I love it, and I'm super happy with the music that we've chosen and implemented into the game. But there will not be a separate soundtrack for Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death.

Destroyah22: That's totally understandable. I do have some intimate knowledge about music licensing and how that works, so I appreciate you for sharing that information with us. Thank you so much. Even the chat was like "much respect" for supporting indie artists and working that way. We all appreciate that.

Chris: Along the way of developing [Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death], we have become sort of semi-regulars in indie forums around the internet. And we've gotten alot of help form other indie developers along the way, especially when we were first starting out. Nowadays we are fortunate enough - we've learned enough about pixel art, and coding, and getting things to just function the way you want them - that we're able to help other people - other devs just starting out. But there were alot of people who helped us when we were first starting out.

Just to share a little bit about the indie development community in general - it's awesome. There are a ton of really supportive and kind people, and even though at the end of the day we're kind of competitors...we are competitors, we also help each other. It's been a really rewarding experience. And I'm really happy that nowadays we're able to help others the same way that we were helped early on.

Destroyah22: So I do remember that earlier this year you were part of an event with a bunch of indie developers who were using the same engine that you are - the RPG Maker engine - is there any plan to continue doing events like that this year?

Chris: Yeah, so events in general are something that is handled by our publisher for the most part now. That event in particular we went to because we were invited. We're regulars within the RPG Maker Community, and they invited us to take part in the festival. But for the most part it's our publisher that handles Steam events, and third party events, and showcases and stuff like that. So it'll ultimately be up to them, but we absolutely want to be apart of more events, and we're going to try and get into more stuff, where we can showcase the game to people who haven't heard about it yet. That's the most difficult part of creating an indie game, or being any sort of indie artist, or indie composer, or anything - is getting the word out.

Destroyah22: Trying to be seen in the sea full of noise.

Chris: Yeah, exactly. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's difficult. I know that, if people give our game a shot, they're going to love it. But it's hard to get people to take the time to give something a try. Festivals, we've seen, are a really great way to get your foot in the door, so we absolutely will be trying to get into more stuff.

Destroyah22: So while we are waiting with bated breath for the game to come out, and this is a question mostly from chat, but are there any games you recommend to play while we wait? From any of your indie dev allies?

Chris: It depends on what type of genre of game you like. I'm going to recommend a few games - they are all, full disclosure - they are published by indie.io, but I am saying these games because they are ones I actually played myself before indie.io became our publisher. So I'm not just - what's the word for it...

Destroyah22: So you're not just publicizing for your publisher.

Chris: Exactly. So these are games I personally played before. They're one of the reasons when [indie.io] wanted to publish us I was like "oh my god, you guys are the ones who published these games, absolutely." But if you like Pokemon games - Coromon, really cool one. It plays like old school Pokemon, but with alot of quality of life features. Right from the get-go there's alot of randomization features you can do. Alot of difficult setting type stuff. So if you're into creature tamer games, that one's really good. If you like strategy RPGs - if you ever played Ogre Battle 64, which is another one of my favorite games as a kid - there's a game called Symphony of War, an indie game that is very similar in style, and the story was top notch. Definitely would recommend those two games, as far as like really top notch indie games.

I'll throw one more out there - and this one is not from my publisher - it's a game called To the Moon. It's actually an RPG Maker game as well. Absolutely phenomenal storytelling in that game. It's very short, it's not a traditional - it's like an RPG, but there isn't much combat. I don't think there's any combat, really. It's just a story that you play through. But it is a very heart-wrenching story, and I would definitely recommend it if you like games like that. All three of those games are top notch indie games, and in my honest opinion, they are better than most AAA games that come out these days, and I would highly recommend all of them.

Destroyah22: Nice. Alright, we have another question from the chat: What is a dream collaboration you're looking for? Be it developer, artist...digital art, music, whatever collaboration you would dream about?

Chris: For me, and this might be a little it out there, but if you ever played the Shadow Hearts RPGs, the devs behind those games, they were just so creative, and they are definitely some of - I wouldn't put them on my top 5 list of favorite games or anything - but they are very unique. I think if I were sometime in the future able to work with them to create a horror RPG, those would be the partners of choice for that sort of game.

Destroyah22: How about you Paige? What's your dream collab?

Paige: I really don't know. Ultimately, since we are just two devs, it would be awesome just to have a bigger team. Since we are wearing so many different hats every day, having someone that has more experienced in art and could focus more on helping us create the world we want to, having someone who is more experienced in music, so we could actually release the music in a bundle, so people can enjoy the soundtrack. Just things that we might not have those top-tier skillsets ourselves, would definitely help us to bring our game up a notch [as well as] potential future games. Fingers crossed.

Destroyah22: I believe there will be future games. I believe it. I'm willing it into existence. Alright guys, thank you so much for joining today. I don't want to take up all your entire night. We've been going for awhile. Any final thoughts you want to share with the audience? Moments of zen?

Paige: For me, thank you everyone so much. If you haven't played the demo, please give it a try. Tell your friends. It's quite a blast. When we were watching your stream the other day, a couple hours [of gameplay], that's not even the whole Act. There's so much more of the game. More love to experience once we release the full game. Thank you all again for your support. We hope you'll stick with us. Thank you.

Chris: I would just echo Paige's sentiment here and say thank you very much for having us on your stream. Thank you to everyone who came to listen in. I'm honored to be here, truly, and I hope that you will not only play our game, but also give indie games in general more of your time, because there are so many incredible indie gems out there to discover, that frankly kick the #$% of alot of the AAA games coming out there days.

So once you've played Sunflowers and the Goddess of Death to your heart's content, please check out other indie games and give their worlds a try as well. Thank you so much for letting us be here to talk about the game.

Destroyah22: Thank you so much for joining us. Have a good night. We will be keeping an eye out for the game and any updates, and be keeping an eye on the Steam page!

Chris: Thank you again everyone. Take care and have a wonderful week.